Workshop No. 1 April 21, 2013
JC said:
I really, really, really liked this. Get this shit out there. It’s raw, it’s real. It’s true... People need to see and feel this experience. Like you, I wasn’t crazy about the “I walked into a bar. Ouch” thing, but I understand Job’s attempt... Slickness and overthinking has its place, but if I want that I’ll read Mailer. This is the real deal. Warts and all. There’s real talent there. I’m so glad you are in his corner.
Oh and yeah, I’m hooked.
WL said:
My God, this guy can write...
[Y]ou should be ashamed for asking a reader to deprive himself of context.
I even read his Inmate Skills Development Plan. It’s all integral to understanding Job.
So far, I haven’t seen a word wasted; I haven’t read a sentence of excess; I haven’t read a sentence that didn’t depend upon your having read the previous ones to understand its meaning. This guy has a writing style that is highly distilled.
Just finished Laying On of the Hands. Job may very well be a genius. That said, I will make it my business to cross the street to avoid him...
Problem is, all it takes is the familiar environs of New Orleans to get him going. Does he know enough to recognize places and situations that will trigger him, and to physically remove himself from the places, situations, and people?
Here’s the major problem for the outsider: it takes a big leap to understand that Job sees himself and all of his loved ones in those kids... [when] he commits mayhem in the next breath.
He was none too gentle putting the pistol up to BA’s temple.
“What have you learned?” I think would be an interesting question to pose to him.
Second, the “”tap on the head” with the muzzle of the pistol needs to be made more explicit.
PB said:
OK, I agree with your analysis of the logic of TSNK. Nothing about it makes sense. A “two-bit petty drug dealer” who’s a heavy user has $5000 in cash in his pocket? BA is a member of a bike gang that wholesales meth but buys an eighth a week at retail? Shit, an operation that size spills more than that. He goes to buy $2500 worth of product without that 9mm throwaway tucked in his pants? Without “Boomy for backup”?
Does. Not. Compute.
How soon can you acquaint him with the fact that the rhyming couplet is not the only form of poetry?
I think he’s likely an excellent storyteller, and I think I read that you don’t need to do much cleaning up of his grammar and spelling. Don’t sell him short; I think he can handle the concept.
KG said:
There is disjoint in the writing - I think that is what why you are left wondering if he is a genius or a moron.
There is a sophistication I think in the writing that indicates he speaks as an educated person but then all of the choices he makes are those of someone not too bright or not too caring - and there is disjoint in the phrasing - do you understand what I mean?
I wonder too how much crystal meth one can do without brain damage - but I am not getting a brain damage kind of vibe. I am getting a vibe of someone extremely intelligent (writing wise) but the content indicates that cannot be true.
ML said:
There is definitely potential. A person writes what they know best. From the gut and the heart. Sure, there may be some bullshit elements, but that’s why prisoners are called cons ....connivers and convicted. In French con also means cunts and assholes. I like the interplay between you and your nephew. Almost like a sweet and sour. And yes, the sweet and sour apply to both of you.
Dan R said:
First, if I were Job’s writing teacher, I’d be quite proud of what I read of his work...there’s clarity and unflinching honesty that any writing teacher suffering through a lot of sophomoric glop would appreciate. On the other hand, if I’m an editor working at a publishing house and this crossed my desk I’d have to say thanks for giving me a chance to read it and that would be it.
Job’s character at this point lacks any redeeming features that make us appreciate what he’s telling us for anything other than its forthrightness...which makes it good therapy for him, but not particularly edifying for others...there’s no reflection or context or point of view. It’s just, “This is what I did. This is who I am.” That’s a good starting point for a book, but it’s a long way from being a book.
As I was reading your responses to his chapters, it occurred to me that if he and you wanted to go the fiction route (with both your life experiences as resource), a dialog between an aunt and a jailbird might give this just the angle and depth it needs for broader commercial appeal. Every time you send off one of your scolding responses about his use of language or treatment of women, I wonder what the hell’s his response to this.
That could make for a pretty entertaining novel...as in:
BTW, don’t know Job’s reading habits, but he would do well to read good gritty writers like Lahane (Mystic River). I’m a big believer in that you write as you read..read good stuff and you have a good chance of being a good writer.
I really, really, really liked this. Get this shit out there. It’s raw, it’s real. It’s true... People need to see and feel this experience. Like you, I wasn’t crazy about the “I walked into a bar. Ouch” thing, but I understand Job’s attempt... Slickness and overthinking has its place, but if I want that I’ll read Mailer. This is the real deal. Warts and all. There’s real talent there. I’m so glad you are in his corner.
Oh and yeah, I’m hooked.
WL said:
My God, this guy can write...
[Y]ou should be ashamed for asking a reader to deprive himself of context.
I even read his Inmate Skills Development Plan. It’s all integral to understanding Job.
So far, I haven’t seen a word wasted; I haven’t read a sentence of excess; I haven’t read a sentence that didn’t depend upon your having read the previous ones to understand its meaning. This guy has a writing style that is highly distilled.
Just finished Laying On of the Hands. Job may very well be a genius. That said, I will make it my business to cross the street to avoid him...
Problem is, all it takes is the familiar environs of New Orleans to get him going. Does he know enough to recognize places and situations that will trigger him, and to physically remove himself from the places, situations, and people?
Here’s the major problem for the outsider: it takes a big leap to understand that Job sees himself and all of his loved ones in those kids... [when] he commits mayhem in the next breath.
He was none too gentle putting the pistol up to BA’s temple.
Job: Here I explained that I had a hard time reading the sentence that comes after you lightly tap BA on the head with the pistol. If lightly takes a literal reading, I figured the sentence was something like: Blood started immediately draining from his face. If it takes an ironic reading, the sentence should be: Blood started immediately running down his face.
“What have you learned?” I think would be an interesting question to pose to him.
Second, the “”tap on the head” with the muzzle of the pistol needs to be made more explicit.
PB said:
OK, I agree with your analysis of the logic of TSNK. Nothing about it makes sense. A “two-bit petty drug dealer” who’s a heavy user has $5000 in cash in his pocket? BA is a member of a bike gang that wholesales meth but buys an eighth a week at retail? Shit, an operation that size spills more than that. He goes to buy $2500 worth of product without that 9mm throwaway tucked in his pants? Without “Boomy for backup”?
Does. Not. Compute.
I agreed here with PB that lots didn’t make sense to me either and that my first thought was: BA was a DEA agent and you were just too hopped up and full of yourself to sense it. But, any law
enforcement person will tell you most criminals are incredibly stupid...even the intelligent ones. Few are Walter Whites (Breaking Bad), Avon
Barksdales (The Wire), or Boyd Crowders (Justified).
How soon can you acquaint him with the fact that the rhyming couplet is not the only form of poetry?
I explained you’re a high school dropout.
I think he’s likely an excellent storyteller, and I think I read that you don’t need to do much cleaning up of his grammar and spelling. Don’t sell him short; I think he can handle the concept.
KG said:
There is disjoint in the writing - I think that is what why you are left wondering if he is a genius or a moron.
There is a sophistication I think in the writing that indicates he speaks as an educated person but then all of the choices he makes are those of someone not too bright or not too caring - and there is disjoint in the phrasing - do you understand what I mean?
I wonder too how much crystal meth one can do without brain damage - but I am not getting a brain damage kind of vibe. I am getting a vibe of someone extremely intelligent (writing wise) but the content indicates that cannot be true.
ML said:
There is definitely potential. A person writes what they know best. From the gut and the heart. Sure, there may be some bullshit elements, but that’s why prisoners are called cons ....connivers and convicted. In French con also means cunts and assholes. I like the interplay between you and your nephew. Almost like a sweet and sour. And yes, the sweet and sour apply to both of you.
Dan R said:
All emphasis in what follows is mine.
First, if I were Job’s writing teacher, I’d be quite proud of what I read of his work...there’s clarity and unflinching honesty that any writing teacher suffering through a lot of sophomoric glop would appreciate. On the other hand, if I’m an editor working at a publishing house and this crossed my desk I’d have to say thanks for giving me a chance to read it and that would be it.
Job’s character at this point lacks any redeeming features that make us appreciate what he’s telling us for anything other than its forthrightness...which makes it good therapy for him, but not particularly edifying for others...there’s no reflection or context or point of view. It’s just, “This is what I did. This is who I am.” That’s a good starting point for a book, but it’s a long way from being a book.
Of course, I agree with this. I don’t know when we’ll reach the book stage, if ever.
As I was reading your responses to his chapters, it occurred to me that if he and you wanted to go the fiction route (with both your life experiences as resource), a dialog between an aunt and a jailbird might give this just the angle and depth it needs for broader commercial appeal. Every time you send off one of your scolding responses about his use of language or treatment of women, I wonder what the hell’s his response to this.
That could make for a pretty entertaining novel...as in:
Dear Nephew,Anyway, that’s one suggestion if you want to take it beyond where it is right now. But where it is right now’s not so bad. Seems like a very nice bonding between you and your nephew, and there’s real true value in that. The world does not need to be included.
Tsk...tsk...tsk, how dare you tell me about your blow jobs.
Dear Auntie,
Give me a fucking break and don’t tell me you never gave one...
and back and forth like that....
BTW, don’t know Job’s reading habits, but he would do well to read good gritty writers like Lahane (Mystic River). I’m a big believer in that you write as you read..read good stuff and you have a good chance of being a good writer.
